From the day the PlayStation 3 launched, all the way up until now, we've heard all of the excuses and reasoning behind why several companies choose not to develop for the platform (or they do attempt and seem to fall flat on their faces). Everything from the online play features to blaming it on the system architecture itself, these certain developers have chosen to place blame on the PlayStation 3 for not being all there. I'm not sure I can agree with any notions that the PlayStation 3 is too hard to develop for, honestly. After seeing beasts like Killzone 2, Uncharted 2, Metal Gear Solid, and lots more shine as revolutionary steps forward in gaming, it's hard to believe that anyone else developing for the PlayStation 3 are giving their best effort when they can't get a smooth running game developed for it.
One guilty party in this is Valve. To this very day, Valve has been alienating the PlayStation 3 owners by not taking the console seriously. From the shoddy port of The Orange Box, to refusing to develop Left 4 Dead 2 for the PS3, they've made it clear that they don't want to waste their time and effort on what they believe is an "inferior" console. Question: if everyone else is developing games for the PlayStation 3 just fine, then shouldn't you consider the developer, who can't seem to get anything to go right for them on the PlayStation 3, inferior? I won't outright call Valve lazy, but the after market support they promise for some of their titles (and ultimately doesn't end up delivering on) doesn't help much in proving their case.
Now, a new developer has emerged from the shadows in claiming that their lack of support for the illustrious platform stems from the fact that its innards are more complicated than figuring out if H1N1 vaccines are helping or worsening the swine flu problem. Splash Damage, the developers behind the upcoming Brink, have gone on the record to state that the PS3 technology is "alien" and their team is incapable of adjusting to produce quality end results on the platform.
To me as a game director there are some things that are just alien, like PlayStation 3 technology and job systems, that I find it really difficult to get my head around.
These are the words of Paul Wedgwood, the head honcho of Splash Damage. It's really noble of him to admit that the PS3 is too complicated for him to wrap his mind around, but what's even more noble is his resolve for it all. Instead of flat out blaming Sony and the PlayStation 3 for his problems, he solved his problems. Wedgwood wasn't stubborn enough to put out a shoddy port of the game to the PlayStation 3, nor did he go as far as saying that they would not develop for the complicated platform, not at all. Instead, he brought in assets to aid his team in learning the technology and to put out a quality game worth $60 at retail.
Luckily it’s not my job to understand job systems: we just hire really talented people to solve it instead. We have Dean Calver who was lead programmer on Heavenly Sword as lead programmer on Brink.
So let me get this straight: instead of dropping support for the PlayStation 3 and disappointing hundreds of thousands of consumers, you brought in outside help with no question to help you with this very specific problem? Genius! If all developers thought this way, and strives for excellence in everything that they do, then I wouldn't be writing this editorial. My open question to Valve: is it because you're lazy? Are you just too stubborn to admit that you can't come to terms with the PS3 (unlike Mr. Wedgwood)? Or do you genuinely dislike the platform overall? I'm not trying to sound snarky in my haste, but I can't help but to call foul when I see Sony caught in the crossfires of a very influential developer's vendetta with their product, when everyone else seems to have no problem working with it.
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November 30, 2009 at 10:04 AM
Valve didn’t make the ’shoddy’ port of The Orange Box. Another EA studio did. From what I keep hearig from PS3 fanboys they don’t want L4D2. The graphics are sub-par to most of them and they’re just fine playing Uncharted 2 or some other exclusive. I’m a huge L4D fan but to be quite honest, I’m having too much fun with the BFBC2 Beta to even care about my other games, MW2 is getting neglected, same with Dragon Age and my newly acquired U2.
This comment was posted from a mobile device.
November 30, 2009 at 10:18 AM
I meant the way they handled the Orange Box port, by dumping it off to EA without puttnig their own hand into it.
December 1, 2009 at 12:09 AM
this is being completley blown out of proportion who gives a crap seriously.
valve dont want to release games on the ps3, thats fine its up to them it does not mean their lazy or their bias.
i dont see people calling insomniac bias or lazy, there a independent developer just like valve, they can release games with who ever they want too.
valve dont have any ps3 coders, and they dont want to spend the time and money bringing people in and bringing them up to speed with the companies projects its as simple as that.
November 30, 2009 at 11:00 AM
You say that PS3 owners don’t want L4D, but even if I fall into the fanboy category or not, L4D is the only 360 exclusive that I really ‘want’ to play. I don’t plan on buying (and can’t really afford) a 360 and a Gold subscription just to play it and also won’t have a PC anywhere near capable of running it any time soon. So really my only option for playing it is if it’s ported to the PS3. I’m sure there are many others who share similar sentiments so it would be very much in Valves interests to take up PS3 development.
November 30, 2009 at 10:24 AM
TO right, Valve are just lazy. Like you said Uncharted 2 and Killzone 2, etc all look amazing and there are other developers making a great job of the PS3. Even thrid partys are. So valve are just lazy. Even if they tryed and did a poor job, a least they would be trying, in sted of being:
A) Fanboys
B) Sellouts – Taking money From M$
C) Lazy
December 1, 2009 at 12:10 AM
their lazy?
so can you tell me why every single game they release gets nominated for GOTY?
December 1, 2009 at 4:54 AM
Being lazy and having talent are unrelated.
Yes they have talent, L4D2, is a good game, its the only game theyve dont ive tried.
But there too lazy to spend the time creating/porting the game for PS3 and to cheap to hire someone to help them do it.
November 30, 2009 at 10:29 AM
It’s funny that of the three titles you’ve given as examples of games that were done right on the system, two of them were made by developer owned by Sony themselves. I’m sure they’d have no problems spouting praise to the system about how easy it is to develop for. In the end the development costs for those companies are being absorbed by Sony’s gaming department, which, has been posted at 1.7 Billion dollars?
It’s all fine and dandy to accuse a developer of being unfair, but when the company that’s developing for it’s own console is bleeding money in order to put out good games, I think it’s a bit wrong to tell everyone else that they have to spend all of their money to make their games run on it.
November 30, 2009 at 11:09 AM
Valve are either blind fanboys or just plain untalented. Those are the only options. Fact is no Valve game or ANY game on the 360 can compete with the graphics of Killzone 2 or Uncharted 2. So if the PS3 is “Inferior” but the 360 can’t come close to it……does that make the 360 “Last – gen” or what? Maybe Valve just don’t like change………
November 30, 2009 at 11:13 AM
Let’s be honest here. Valve are neither lazy nor stupid. They are, however, a PC developer. Microsoft have done their best to make developing for the 360 similar to developing for the PC, so thats a natural fit for Valve.The PS3 isn’t like that though, so of course it will feel “alien” to them, just like if they were to have a go at making games for the Wii. Making a game look good for any console requires hard work and specialist skills (as the guy from Splash Damage acknowledged). They just need to recruit accordingly.
Leathershop, you’re right about Sony owning Naughty Dog and Guerrlia games being first-party companies, but I don’t see people complaining that Microsoft own Bungie or Rare, or the products that come from them, so is it such a bad thing? Every company wants to have first-party titles that show their system off. Sony have them, MS have them, Nintendo have them. Even Sega and Atari had them – it’s nothing new.
November 30, 2009 at 11:44 AM
I have to say I’ve loved Valve ever since the original half-life. I’ve purchased every game their studio has produced and I’ve never been disappointed. Except Orange Box for the 360. I waited years for TF2 and valve completely failed me there. Of course as soon as I owned a PC that was capable of playing it I purchased TF2 for PC and have been enjoying it ever since. But after having my 360 die for a third time I gave up on that horribly built console forever and made the switch to the PS3. Now my PC is older and even though I can run L4D2 smoothly, it crashes before I can even finish a single campaign and I have to turn the settings pretty low. oh if only valve would man up and support the PS3. I long for the day that I can see L4D2 with full visual fidelity. Plus I spent a lot of money on the game and it’s not even stable on my computer. I’ll keep dreaming of a world where valve worked with the ps3 and in the meantime I’ll be in TF2 and L4D1 until they patch up the game enough that it works with my rig.
November 30, 2009 at 12:14 PM
Decent article, but why blame the developer when the tool maker is at fault. There have been plenty of developers and articles detailing the issues with PS3 (or should I say Cell) development. After all, the Sony entertainment boss Kaz Hirai said:
“We don’t provide the ‘easy to program for’ console that [developers] want, because ‘easy to program for’ means that anybody will be able to take advantage of pretty much what the hardware can do, so then the question is what do you do for the rest of the nine-and-a-half years?”
source
A game studio has fixed amount of resources, so why make their job harder?
November 30, 2009 at 8:35 PM
Your right on… What a shame… Everbody believes whatever Sony tells them.
We make our cell hard to develope for because what would the developers do for the rest 9 and half years. MAN… That statement is so easly to pick apart..Xbox 360 is easly to develope for and the games are looking better. Xbox is taking the natural progress in games as all consoles have taken over there lifetime. Without the so call reason why we make our consoles hard to develope for cause. What would developers do for the next nine and half years… Wish there was another popular console to develope for. HA HA
P.S I’m not being bias just looking at the facts.
November 30, 2009 at 12:14 PM
@ Not a helpdesk, 2 posts above…
Ummm…. Microsoft do not own Bungie. Bungue are looking into creating PS3 exclusive games.
Also Valve are either lazy, untalented or plain spiteful to themselve. They are only cutting their own nose off to spite themselves at the end of the day. So if no Valve games came out for PS3 would that resonate at all with the PS3 userbase? Ofcourse not, because there are no Valve games that have the appeal of the other PS3 exclusives.
As much as Valve’s stance annoys me, due to the company being unproffessional and disrectful to potential customers, I wouldn’t buy their games for PS3 because… well, they ain’t good enough anyway, even if their effort went into it.
November 30, 2009 at 12:42 PM
Valve is nothing but a Micro$oft fan boy company… they are used to developing for the pc so they take the easy road and not even try to develope for the ps3. It may be a more complicated system to develope for but the result in learning to harness its technology is outstanding games. Look at Uncharted 1 + 2, Resistance 1+ 2, Killzone 2, Ratchet & Clank 1 + 2, Infamous, Metal Gear solid 4, Little Big Planet, etc… To tell you the truth the only 2 games exclusive to 360 that i would like on the ps3 is Gears and L4D. So valve, stop being lazy, ignorant pc developing fan boys and step up like EVERY other developer and port some QAULITY games to the ps3.
November 30, 2009 at 12:50 PM
Look, I personally think everyone just needs to drop this. At this point EVERYONE knows that Valve COULD develop on PS3, but just doesn’t WANT to. They have publicly stated as much. Which mean, yes, they are biased against PS3. But really, who cares?
If they hate PS3 so much, why would you want them to port their games to PS3? Chances are, since we all know they’re biased against the system, they’d probably just purposely do a crap job to make the system look bad. And that is just my general gamer view. My personal opinion is quite different.
Personally, I don’t know why PS3 gamers want Valve games on PS3 anyway. I think they are the #1 most over-rated developer in gaming. Every game they make is over-hyped junk. Half-Life was ok for the time. But that’s all it was…OK. And even then, it’s graphics (HL2) were pretty outdated for the time compared to other PC titlles of the time like DOOM3. And all their other games are the same. Usually a decent story, with good interaction. But the gameplay is always incredibly generic and “floaty”, and all handle the same just with slight speed differences. And their graphics and environments are also super generic, and always unbelievably sterile. I play L4D 1 and 2 at my neighbor’s house quite a bit. And I honestly couldn’t imagine a zombie filled world like this feel so “clean” and sterile. You could eat off the floors. Completely unrealistic atmosphere. The only game Valve’s ever made that had any originality is TF2, and that’s already on PS3, and it’s port is very good. Everyone likes to pretend Orange box is full of bugs on PS3, but I really don’t see that to be the case. I actually think EA did a better job porting TOB to PS3 than Valve themselves did porting the game to 360. (and yes, I’ve played both) there’s more bugs on the 360 version of TF2 online than on PS3. Any honest gamer who’d played both could tell you this.
I believe that PS3 gamers only want Valve to develop for PS3 due to the “Mee Too Complex”. Because the fact is, just about any PS3 exclusive games, save 2 or 3, are far better than anything Valve has ever put out. Gamers on both systems have this same complex. It’s strange the mind-set gamers have this gen, which they’ve never had before, and I’ve lived through every console generation. They all seem to want these over hyped and over rated games over far superior games that don’t have hype trains behind them.
November 30, 2009 at 12:54 PM
Valve is lazy, stubborn, and M$ fanboys. I recall an article siting quotes from Gabe Newell probably about 8 months after the PS3 was released stating that he thinks Sony should just stop making consoles, or at the very least scrap the PS3 and start over. What kind of short-sighted assinine crap is that? And as many have seen in more recent statements they are not changing their attitudes. Yes they are PC developers first, and thats fine. Develop for the 360 as well, that’s fine too. But instead of insulting the PS3 community and constantly complaining about how the PS3 doesn’t work they way they want or is too difficult, they should maybe just keep their mouths shut. Sony isn’t going to change they way their console works just to accomodate them, and they aren’t going to make many more friends in the gaming community either. Seriously Valve, shut up.
November 30, 2009 at 2:21 PM
It’s laziness pure and simple, so many developers have worked with the PS3 and found it to be a very powerful machine, Valve on the other hand are still using that ancient Source engine to make their games, instead of creating an engine that would work with the PS3 better; they’ve decided to do nothing then have Gabe Fat Newell come in a say Sony should scrap it.
Only people to blame are the lazy sods at Valve, sure the architecture is different from PC/360 but laziness is why Valve hasn’t got any games on the PS3, not the PS3.
November 30, 2009 at 2:27 PM
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Gabe Newell of Valve is a fat, lazy piece of shit. Just look at him. Only reason they develop for XBOX is because it’s essentially the same structure as a PC. If it were slightly different, that lazy-ass wouldn’t develop for them either.
Valve = Lazy
They were cool and innovative a decade ago but now they have decided to rest on their laurels. Looks like the saying is true. In Valve’s case, you CANT teach an old dog new tricks. Probably time for them to hang their hat and stop releasing over-priced “add-ons” with a sequel moniker to products that people cared about 3-4 years ago.
I hope Gabe Newell goes down in the videogame history books not as an innovator, but as a detriment and a disappointment to the future of gaming. His inability and uninterest to react and adapt with the times will bite them in the ass and most likely erase all memory of the hard work and care that they used to put into their products.
If I were Valve, I would call mutiny on fatboy and get someone at the helm who actually gives a shit about games and the gaming community.
November 30, 2009 at 7:07 PM
The XBox 360 is not essentially the same as a PC. PC’s use Intel processors (either x86 or x64). The XBox 360 uses Power PC G5 processors, which incidentally are the same processors that make up the cores of the PS3.
November 30, 2009 at 2:39 PM
Valve is a PC developer, plain and simple. They do not have to like the PS3, or more specifically the Cell. The Cell is going to be the last in the line of PC processors as they are moving toward hybrid GPU type processors. Why spend YEARS trying to learn programming that will be completely obsolete (well not completely) when the PS3 is dead. PS4 specs (not at all accurate yet) are already showing a move away from just the cell. If I was a new programmer, I would stick with what I know as well. Can’t fault them for that. And, noone in the comments points out that Mr. Wedgewood is entitled to his own oppinion, but Valve is not. C’mon already. Stop the fanboy hate. P.S. I own both consoles and love both L4D2 and Uncharted 2. Both consoles are great in their own ways.
November 30, 2009 at 3:34 PM
How is L4D2 considered an Xbox 360 exclusive? It comes out on goddamn windows .. like every other “360 exclusive” .. and runs 100x better on PC than the lagbox..
November 30, 2009 at 4:06 PM
you need to take a science class if you really think swine flu vaccines are causing H1N1. I just hope you were kidding, because if you werent, you have alot of learning to do. good article, but some what diminished by such an absurd statement.
November 30, 2009 at 5:06 PM
Sooo…..what about studios working on PS3 games exclusively? Microsoft had to PAY japanese studios to work on the 360…but ps3 drones jsut overlook that, and blame M$ for moneyhatting, while shitbird sony is allow to screw them over and they are happy about it.
November 30, 2009 at 5:49 PM
Keep in mind – PS3 has many games with framerate issues. It has constantly been complained about, not only Valve. Maybe Valve just got too frustrated with it while others stuck with it.
November 30, 2009 at 6:08 PM
lol.
look at all you PS3 fanboys raving, ‘we dont want L4D2 anyway, its stupid’, when we all know you want it because it is a genuinely great game. the multiplayer is unique in the fact that you HAVE to work as a team or you will die, guaranteed. no other console game requires that sort of teamwork online.
its just like bioshock – when it was a ‘360 exclusive’, you all said how it looks lame, is overrated, and are glad its not on PS3……….then it got announced for the PS3 and you all went gaga for it lol. itd be the same with Left4Dead, halo, forza, gears or any other 360 exclusive franchise – you only hate them because you cant play them. its sad.
on the topic of valve, theyre neither lazy nor untalented. how could you say that about the developers that brought you half life, half life 2, portal, team fortress and left 4 dead? oh right, cause they refuse to make games for a console that is overly complicated to program for, requiring you to learn new ways of doing things when that knowledge will never be used for anything else.
November 30, 2009 at 6:19 PM
since Valve sucks at making a PS3 game, then Half Life Episode 3 will be on 360 and PC
November 30, 2009 at 7:33 PM
Some of you really make me question how you view gaming. Valve not producing on the PS3 because of “developer choice” is quite simply, poor business economics. Why lose out on MORE consumers, only because they don’t want to develop on the system? Ask yourselves if you would want to lose out on hundreds of thousands of consumers buying your games. If you say you’re willing to, you fail business 101.
Secondly, I appreciate their quality of products but come on. Where’s the Sony love? It only takes a little $ to get the assistance to develop on the system, no different than Mr. Wedgwood. It’s a dis-service to all gamers everywhere. I’m sure everyone agrees, more people playing great games, the better.
Thirdly, what is with the blatant fanboyism? When did this become the fanboy generation? We should all be embracing the golden age of gaming we live in, whether you play 360, PS3, Wii or PC. Everything’s got something right now. Even PSP, DS, and the iPhone.
Lastly, I want everyone to realize one very simple thing that Valve is proving to everyone; they are more concerned about their vision of their games than what the consumers want. Does this mean they’re terrible developers? No, not by any stretch of the means. But it does show blatant disrespect of the people who so proudly support(ed) them for years.
November 30, 2009 at 10:20 PM
Reread your statement and replace ‘Valve’ with ‘Insomniac’.
November 30, 2009 at 7:37 PM
well if those developers dont want to then just be , if they cant they cant right? then why bother just keep on playing games
November 30, 2009 at 7:40 PM
@Celes:
you need to learn a bit more about business if you think its as simple as that. Since NONE of the valve developers have ever programmed for the PS3, it would require SIGNIFICANT time and money to be spent on research and development. it would take them at least 12 months of dedicated PS3 programming/learning to get to a point where theyd feel comfortable enough to even attempt to create a game, as Valve dont do things half-arsed like other developers. so give it say 2-3 years for them to re-do Left 4 Dead for the PS3……….then, going by the amount of sales that the big name, hugely hyped and known titles like Little Big Planet, Uncharted, MGS4, Killzone 2, etc have made, they would maybe, just maybe, manage 1 million sales worldwide for it – and thats if theyre lucky. there is absolutely no way that they would make their money back from 2-3 years of dedicated hard work, during which time they also havent worked on any other games for other platforms that they could write games for in their sleep. they would lose a metric $hit-load of money, and all for what? so a few hundred thousand people can play their game, and they now have knowledge of how to program for the PS3 that is completely irrelevant for every other programming platform in the world.
like they say, its a waste of their time.
November 30, 2009 at 7:47 PM
valve has been making pc games for a long time right. and the xbox360 uses the same building blocks( that not exactly the right terminology) so valve should be able to make games run faster and look better with less strain on the system, so why do there games still look as if they came out at the same time. why isn’t LFD2 one of the most spectacular looking xbox games out now. and why no jump in amount of online players in xbox games forza 3 still 8 and 18 players in call of duty . is it to much for the system. i know Battefield is 24 and i will be getting BFBC2. to me bigger is better.but that’s me. and see what PS3 has already done in less time with its games it just seems to me they should be able to get so much more out of the older stuff cause they know it in and out. but i guess not. Maybe its the space limitation i don’t know.
November 30, 2009 at 8:05 PM
Wow, history does repeat itself. When Nintendo developed the Nintendo 64 hardware, they did what Sony has done twice now. In 1996, people were bashing Nintendo because a few developers commented on how difficult it was to program for, and how it was easier to get more performance out of the PlayStation (yes the original PlayStation). Plus, the same argument was given for Sega Saturn, it was too complicated to program for, so developers flocked the easy to program PlayStation. It was flooded with games, because it was easy for developers. So, then Sony does an about face, and comes out with the “Emotion Engine,” which is another “alien” architecture from the original PlayStation. It took a while for decent games to come out for the PS2 (anyone remember that), however it was a different market at that time. Sony was the defacto market leaders at the time, so the developers had to make games for the PS2, there wasn’t really any competition. Just like today, the original XBOX was easy to program for, and the PS2 was not. Nintendo learned from the mistakes (programing wise) with the N64, as the GameCube was another easy to program for console. However, game development resources were being targeted towards the market leader, the PS2 (I purposely ignored the Dreamcast in this discussion, as Sony killed it before the PS2 was even out).
Flash forward to today, Sony is no longer the market leader, and have not been for three years now. Microsoft has done a wonderful job marketing the XBOX 360 to developers, and Nintendo surprised everyone with the Wii. Now, the market leaders have easy to develop for platforms, and Sony is in 3rd place (in the US). The developers (Valve included) do not have to learn the PS3, just as other developers did not take the time to learn the N64 (or the Sega Saturn for that matter), or if they did, they did mediocre ports.
Just watch, if Sony is (somehow) able to turn the market around, and get on top again, watch as the hold outs flock to develop for them.
November 30, 2009 at 9:54 PM
I have often wondered about the design of the PS3 and the PSN. One thing you must look at is the amount of processing power required to handle multiple AI on one screen and translate network code at the same time. Most if not all Valve games are designed with this feature AI and network code. Valve would have to change the game design to adjust to the PS3 yes inferior processing power of the SPUs (when it comes to general purpose computing). The Cell is not really designed for general purpose computing. General purpose computing is better for handling AI instructions and network code. This is the same problem with dead rising. A multitude of branch instructions must be handled through the processor with error correction. Debugging zombie games on the PS3 must be a headache for AI and Network engineers. Now to give credit to the Cell and the RSX it is really good at executing cinematic game design. In single player games were the AI runs a minimum instruction set to psyche the player into thinking their AI is good, but if you pay attention the AI is not really doing anything special (KZ2). What is happening is the background images and game scripting is really pushing some major instructions sets. Take uncharted for example: The main character and the enemies are not really doing much. Your basic shoot, strafe, duck, and repeat. For most gamers this is good enough. You can’t have multiple enemies doing this in complex variations and adjust to the players skill level in game. What the cell does offer and I am jealous being a Xbox 360 owner is cinematic scripting code. This is code that executes a bridge following, barrels rolling, birds flying, and yeah that deer running across the street during the whole scene. The cell has the power to make everything in the game move, even the flower in vase on the level you have not seen yet is moving. Hidden in deep inside the cell it knows when to execute instructions based off actions that have not even happened in game time. This doesn’t help valve out. Valve is more focused on AI based driven games. The AI director in L4D1 and 2 will have you so busy you wont have time to look at the graphics or any scripted events. All who have played this game knows what I am talking about. The AI will adjust to your play style and seems to get angry when it is being beat. This gives the player the feeling of lack of safety. Even in the darkest corners of the game the zombies will find, strategize, and kill you. If you are good at beating a certain type of zombie then it will throw a different type of zombie at you. This makes the game different not only based on how many times you play it but who you play it with.
In so many words I think valve is trying to say to Sony fans. Sorry wrong processor for this type of game.
November 30, 2009 at 10:00 PM
Even IBM who created the chip said the cell processor can be difficult to code for unless you have a lot of resources. There is a reason why Intel and Microsoft have the majority of the market in chips and software. The products are good enough and easy enough to use. You don’t win friends and respect by making things as difficult as possible then telling people you did that on purpose to slow down development. Something Sony admitted in an interview. The PS3 may have recovered, but imagine what could have been if the PS3 was that much easier and that much more powerful to code for?
November 30, 2009 at 11:30 PM
Coding for the PS3 is no easy task. However, as much as I respect Valve I consider this is a laziness case. Factoring in Microsoft’s generous pocket and Valve’s 1/2@ssed L4dead2, yeah they are pretty much lazy and/or biased. Hopefully they change their ways soon.
December 1, 2009 at 12:53 AM
This thing for Valve not making games for the PS3 is so damn old. If they don’t want to do it, it there right. They can make games for any sytem they want. If they were just making them for PC and no console then they would be pissed for that. If PS3 fanboys keep saying they have games like UC2 that look so much better, then why do they want L4D2 so bad. It cause it a fun ass fan and they can play it. Sometime the PS3 won’t get the best games. and they need to understand that.
December 1, 2009 at 2:51 AM
They are Microsoft property , I have both consoles and I don’t like what did the fanboys at valve said about the PS3 . They don’t want to make games for the PS3 , its ok, its their games anyway , but at least don’t bash it and talk crap about it’s users !! .
December 1, 2009 at 3:34 AM
I really dont care for L4D or any other crap all i want is for Half life 3 to come to the PS3 or ill just torrent it for my PC like i do with most 360 “exclusives” if its on a PC its not exclusive
December 1, 2009 at 3:53 AM
Why even care though? I mean, most gamers are multi-console owners. Saying Valve is lazy for not porting L4D is like saying Kojima Prod. is lazy for not porting MGS4. If you want L4D buy it for your 360. I’m sure it comes with a month of Live. I love L4D, MP is awesome. I didn’t get it because the games on my PS3 are getting most of the attention (mainly BFBC2 beta) and because I haven’t found a reason to justify spending $50 on live.
All this bullshit about devs being lazy or fanboys never gets said about Insomniac or Kojima
Prods. Just play your games. If you’re a PS3 only owner and refuse to buy a 360 then worry about the games that are on your system not the ones that aren’t. If you own both then you got nothing to worry about. GoW III, Heavy Rain, GT5, Quatum Thoery, White Knight Story, etc. Get excited about those games because they’re gonna be awesome too. Thread/
This comment was posted from a mobile device.
December 1, 2009 at 4:17 AM
I have to laugh at some of the retorts to my statement. For one, @Joe, if that is your argument, which I sincerely hope it isn’t, then why does ANY company start developing for a foreign console/coding choice? There’d be “no profit” as you claim. It’s a really dumb argument.
As for the Insomniac bit, they have announced they might be doing multiplatform developing. Oh but, I guess you haven’t read about those things yet have you? ;P
December 1, 2009 at 5:44 AM
Celes,
if they could be guaranteed 2 things: to sell enough copies to make their money back, and for the knowledge they learn on how to code for the PS3 to be useful for other areas of work/consoles, then im sure they would do it.
they cant say without doubt that either of those scenarios are true, because frankly all evidence points to the contrary. if the huge name games like killzone/little big planet/infamous can only manage a paltry 2 million sales when the install base is nearly at 30 million, what chance does their basically online only game have? none, thats how much. it would be a VERY big ask to even get to the 1 million copies sold mark. so they might have just pumped $15mil into the budget of this game, and another $10mil on getting developers up to scratch with the PS3, and then only make $10 million back – thats a $25 million loss. during this time they cant work on any 360 games, which history and fact has shown will sell much better, take far less time to make, and therefore maximise profits. valve are a company, and companies are about profits.
and on the second point – valve are primarily PC developers. the 360 is made to be like a PC so developers have an easy time making games. the PS3 is not, and guess what other platforms you learn to code for by coding for the PS3? none. not a single one. its sitting in its own little programming world, saying ‘hey come on guys, if you put in 3 times the time and effort with me i can almost give the same results as the 360′………why would they bother?
December 1, 2009 at 5:45 AM
typo, should be $15 million dollar loss.
December 1, 2009 at 7:07 AM
Valve contracted another developer to code The Orange Box, as they didn’t want to spend the time and money, as the costs of game production were already high and hiring an outside company worked out cheaper. The Orange Box port turned out to be poor and caused an out-cry. Gabe Newell stated that they wouldn’t produce for the PS3 because he didn’t like the architecture and considered it “inferior” (because Sony’s choice of unknown architecture was baffling and required re-learning how to code). Now I think just about everyone read what Gabe had to say about the PS3, and as more people pushed him to explain his reasoning, his opinion was seen to be more and more negative. Gabe is now in such a position that he can’t change his mind, or be seen to change his mind, without facing a back-lash from the public over his previous comments. So, I say that Valve have the talent, they have the money, what they don’t have is a director who’s willing to do a U-turn and shame himself in the eyes of the gamers over his previous choices.
December 1, 2009 at 7:18 AM
PS3 fanboy logic:
A third party company develops for PS3 exclusively ==> PS3 is a superior platform and the developer can’t port their code to X360 without ruining the game
A third party company develops for X360 exclusively ==> Developer is lazy and can’t get around the highly complex and superior PS3 hardware
I think the reason some developers avoid the PS3 is exactly this: retarded fanboys with inferiority complex who don’t really buy and play games, but instead are obsessed with trashing and talking s**t in some lame internet blogs.
December 1, 2009 at 8:53 AM
Are you being funny or do you honestly believe that developers make their decisions based on “retarded fanboys”. I know youre being serious and its so much fun!
December 2, 2009 at 10:09 AM
PS3 fanboy logic:
Somebody is pointing the retarded PS3 fanboy logic and making fun of it ==> this somebody must be serious and not possibly mocking the fanboys.
As a simple fanboy brain training exercise, try to do the following:
1) Replace the words “PS3″ and “Xbox 360″ in this article
2) Replace the word “Valve” with the word “Kojima Productions”
3) Replace the word “Left 4 Dead/L4D” with the word “Metal Gear Solid/MGS”
4) Replace the word “Gabe Newell” with the word “HIdeo Kojima”
5) Engage in furious rampage berserk as you read the headline “X360 Development For Dummies: Is Kojima Productions Being Lazy Or Are They Biased?”
December 2, 2009 at 1:00 PM
didn’t MGS 2 come out on Xbox and correct me if i’m wrong but isn’t MGS: Rising coming out on 360 along with Castlevania.
Kojima never come out boldly and say 360 was a waste of everybody time and Microsoft need to just start over.
December 1, 2009 at 8:48 AM
I liked this article and I believe that valve indeed are lazy. For all I know, they are not getting paid from Microsoft for this exclusive, am I right?
What if I get myself a new xbox 360 (the last one rod’d) just to play valves titles? How do I know they dont decide to stop releasing for the 360. Maybe they find it too annoyingly complicated and switch to developing web based games instead.
December 1, 2009 at 9:26 AM
I agree if Valve don’t want to put games on PS3 then fine. The only real loser is them because of the money lost from PS3 buyers. Valve and their support for PS3 has been on many topics but as I read the article. I thought what if it was more than just not wanting to put the game out on PS3. We are talking about a PC gaming company. Just maybe they don’t like consoles all together and to some extent is lazy. Only problem with being PC exclusive is console will yield you better profits right now. Now you look at all three consoles and which is more close to your developing platform. 360 I think this just might be more than them shunning PS3, they also are shunning Wii as well. Either way I think it’s kind of stupid not to go after PS3/Wii markets. However if they say they’re profitable just fine in a PC/360 combo then who are we to argue.
December 1, 2009 at 9:11 PM
Hows orange box a shobby port on ps3? when electronic arts has more experience with ps3 than valve.
even though the source engine is just a modified quake 1 engine anyway and ea’s worked with quake engine bullshit before.
ps3 is actually less powerful than xbox360 because theoretically 360’s cpu or gpu can access all 480 mb minus 32 mb used for os…while ps3’s 256 mb cpu 256 mb gpu and minus 86 mb for the os some crap.
plus xbox360’s gpu is much more adanced than ps3’s…xbox360 is actually harder to develop for because there’s features in 360s gpu dev’s never used before and there more features than just 1 learning curve for spe like ps3.
December 2, 2009 at 5:31 AM
Slightly side-tracking off to a different debate, but the 360’s architecture is very similar to that of a PC; Multi-core cpu used for main processing, GPU used for graphics and related calculations. The PS3 has “alien” architecture, the Cell is used for main processing and the GPU doing the bulk of the graphical work and related calculation with the Cell lending a hand to finish up. Now in my mind atleast, if you’re architecture is familiar, then the processing line will be simple to program for. If the architecture is unfamiliar, you have to learn the processing chain. In both familiar and unfamiliar you will find things along the route that you didn’t know could be done, but in the familiar line you’ll be quicker as you know where you’re going. So programming for the SPU/SPE/GPU configuration of the PS3 should be a harder learning curve than programming for what is, by all accounts familiar standard architecture that you’ll find in almost all PC hardware.
December 2, 2009 at 1:16 PM
its one thing i’m tired of reading is “VAVLE IS A PC GAMING COMPANY” to justify for them not developing for PS3. last time i check Xbox and Xbox360 are both GAMING CONSOLES in other words means they DEVELOP FOR GAME CONSOLE.
December 2, 2009 at 3:34 PM
Yes, but in terms of similarity between the two – they are one and the same. Porting from PC to 360 is pretty easy from what I hear. Porting from PC to PS3 is not so easy.
December 2, 2009 at 6:20 PM
ps3’s hardware is more like a pc….it has split system memory like a pc…and uses a pc based gpu devs have worked with before 7800 gtx based.
while xbox360 unified memory….unified card built ground up only for 360…pc doesnt have edram.
360 is actually less like a pc overall.
the only thing devs have to learn on ps3 is the SPE…nothing else is new to devs.
while xbox360’s gpu has so many features dev’s havent even used before much more new techniques to learn than just a 1 thing like learning how to use a spe on ps3.
December 3, 2009 at 12:20 AM
sorry, but thats just wrong.
programming for the 360 is basically PC programming. its incredibly different with the PS3.
December 6, 2009 at 7:30 PM
it’s funny that all you valve fanboys/xbox fanboys defend valve when it is not exclusive everyone including me play half-life episode 1&2 on pc,l4d 1&2 on pc,team fortress 2 pc, portal pc, yet to bots logic it is still exclusive {pathetic} yes there games such as half-life,team fortress 2, portal are good on pc but far as xbox 360 umm’ no it is not because that ps3 owners want l4d on ps3 it is because of there fanboyism they clearly love microsoft and xbox and hate and bash ps3 they are pathetic and gamers in general will never respect them ever again.
December 7, 2009 at 10:50 PM
I respect valve for saying what lots of people are thinking – that Sony try to force developers to have to jump through hoops to get games running on their console, when the experience gained from jumping through those hoops does not help the developer in any way in the rest of the programming world, and as such they see no point in jumping through the hoops.
January 12, 2010 at 6:39 AM
Wow, I’ve not seen an article from a fan boy these far down on the PS3s cock in a good while.
The quote by the Valve director or whoever was:
“To me as a game director there are some things that are just alien, like PlayStation 3 technology and job systems, that I find it really difficult to get my head around.”
And you responded by riding that dick and saying that it’s too complicated for him. Do you know what Alien means? It means that it’s something completely different and new in the context he used it in and maybe he has problems switching ENTIRE PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES. That’s no small feat for most people, I think.